It took Danielle Smith five months to go from “Nobody is touching anyone’s pension” to “Look! It’s a shiny new APP! Albertans will get much more and it will cost much less!!”
And she had the LifeWorks report to backup her claim. LifeWorks says Alberta is entitled to 53% of the CPP fund. Consequently employer and employee contributions will go down; heck, seniors might even get a $10,000 bonus. What’s not to love.
Well, there are the concerns raised by people like economist Trevor Tombe who says Alberta’s share of the CPP fund is closer to 20 to 25%. And the CPP Investment Board who suggests it’s actually 16% and even Smith’s former finance minister Travis Toews put the number at 12%.
Pshaw!
It doesn’t matter that no one knows how much Alberta will get if we leave CPP. It doesn’t matter what additional risks we’ll be taking on. It doesn’t even matter that once we’re out, we can’t get back in. All that matters is Smith wants our feedback. It is our pension and our choice after all.
Smith has posted a handy dandy survey on the government website. It doesn’t ask whether you want to stay in CPP, instead it wants your feedback on how the new APP should be structured.
She set up the Dinning Panel to “listen” to our concerns via 5 telephone townhalls. Mr Dinning isn’t fussed by the fact that telephone townhalls may not be as informative as in-person townhall meetings. In fact he says 14,000 Albertans “weighed in” on the first telephone meeting. They raised 30 questions and left 450 comments. Fantastic, but what did the remaining 13,520 have to say?
Everything was steamrollering ahead until Justin Trudeau finally turned his attention to the matter—although to be fair he does have an awful lot on his plate right now.
Trudeau sent Smith an open letter saying “Alberta’s withdrawal would weaken the pensions of millions of seniors and hardworking people in Alberta and right across the country. The harm it would cause is undeniable.”
He added that he’d instructed his cabinet and officials to take all necessary steps to ensure Albertans and Canadians are fully aware of the risks of APP and “to do everything possible to ensure CPP remains intact.”
Smith replied that Trudeau’s response was “inappropriate in tone” and “overwrought” and warned that any attempt to block Alberta from withdrawing would be viewed as an attack on Alberta’s constitutional and legal rights and would be “met with serious legal and political consequences.”
With that all eyes turned to Pierre Poilievre who’d been conspicuously quiet on the issue.
After the typical it’s-all-Trudeau’s-fault rant Poilievre sided with Trudeau (not that he’d admit it). He encouraged Albertans to stay in the CPP and promised to “protect and secure the CPP for Albertans and all Canadians, by treating every province fairly and freeing Alberta to develop its resources to secure our future.”
I guess that means Poilievre doesn’t agree with Smith that Alberta should get 53% of the CPP fund or that Albertans have paid more than their fair share into the fund or that the Alberta government should have control over its share of the fund (whatever that may be) so it can invest in projects that are in Alberta’s sole interest.
Smith said she appreciated the “tone and sentiment” expressed by Poilievre regarding the destructive Liberal-NDP policies imposed on Albertans and Canadians.
I don’t care what Poilievre’s tone was, the bottom line is the federal conservative leader categorically rejected Smith’s plan to pull out of the CPP.
What this tells us
Anyone with half a brain would have seen this coming.
The only way Poilievre will replace Trudeau is if he convinces all Canadians that he’ll look after their interests better than Trudeau did.
The last thing Poilievre is going to do is side with Alberta—a province that consistently votes conservative but doesn’t have the heft to put a federal conservative government into power—and hang Ontario and the rest of Canada out to dry.
People say Smith is a shrewd politician, but she doesn’t seem to understand that the Conservatives can lose with Alberta on side and the Liberals can win without it. Unless that changes, Poilievre will never support Alberta if it means risking his support in the rest of the country.
How’s them apples.
Susan on the Soapbox 
Susan: Thanks for sharing another great blog. My take on what Pierre Poilievre has been saying about the APP, is that he wants to ensure he does not face defeat, along with the CPC, whenever the next federal election rolls around. Danielle Smith is opening up another can of worms, with the APP, and people with any sense, do not find this appealing. The APP was clearly avoided, during the last provincial election in Alberta, because Danielle Smith and the UCP did not want to risk being defeated to the NDP. UCP MLAs even mentioned during provincial election forums that the UCP had no intention of touching the CPP of Albertans. Now, the UCP are being sly, manipulative, and are using whatever means they can to push the APP upon Albertans, and costing more money in the process, with these ad campaigns, and a referendum, that is also likely to be manipulated. The UCP had lost $4 billion on a pension fund mistake, through AIMCo, so any trust for them to have an APP is gone. If the UCP does manage to go ahead with an APP, there will be a lot of angry people in Alberta. I’ll play some more fitting music. This is a song written by Jack Bruce and Pete Brown, called Politician. It is from the British supergroup, Cream, and was released in 1968. The members of this short lived supergroup were Eric Clapton, Jack Bruce, and Ginger Baker. I have this in my music collection. I saw Eric Clapton live in 2007.
Oh Dwayne, that song was a doozy, the image of the “political man” inviting us into his “big black car” sent shivers down my spine. Frankly given how Smith refused to discuss her plan to pull Alberta out of CPP, only to turn around right after the election and press on with her plan to do just that should send shivers down the spines of all her supporters who believed her when she said their pensions were safe.
Here’s the sad part, her well-heeled supporters don’t care whether she pulls them out of CPP or not. To them CPP is chump change. But the majority of her supporters who are banking on CPP for a comfortable retirement will have to settle for whatever she gives them.
Susan: I came across this. What are your thoughts on it?
https://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/alberta-ndp-says-30000-have-responded-to-pension-survey-90-against-leaving-cpp
Susan: Here is my next song pick. This is from another even shorter lived UK supergroup than Cream was, Blind Faith. Blind Faith only lasted about 1 year, before disintegrating. The supergroup contains 2 former members of Cream, drummer, Ginger Baker, and guitarist, Eric Clapton, who was also in John Mayall’s Bluesbreakers, and The Yardbirds. Rick Grech was the group’s bassist, and he also played violin in this band.He was in the group, Family. Steve Winwood was the group’s vocalist, and also played guitar, piano and organ. He was in the groups Traffic and The Spencer Davis Group. This song was written by Steve Winwood, and it is Can’t Find My Way Home. Steve Winwood was only 21 years old here. He was a professional musician, since the age of 8. I have this in my music collection. I did see Steve Winwood twice live. The longest lasting supergroup was Led Zeppelin, who lasted from 1968 to 1980, after drummer John Bonham passed away. This song is fitting for what is going on in the world.
Dwayne: “I can’t find my way home” sums it up nicely.
Having said that doesn’t Winwood have a fantastic voice. I didn’t know he’d been at it since the age of 8.
Thanks for sharing.
Dear Ms. S:
Excellent assessment of the issues to date.
After listening to the West of Centre blog I am convinced that the smarmy and unctuous Jimmy Dinning and his panel exist solely to buy time for Smith so that she can tell her lies a thousand times until they become the truth.
Smith wants a response from Albertans on the APP without giving them any information. She is selling us a pig in a poke. Expect a good percentage of Albertans to buy what she is selling, because Tribalism.
Now we have the smug apple munching Millhouse Poilievre weighing in and pretending he will safeguard everyone’s CPP. He will until he doesn’t.
As an aside, is Don Urquhart of Osoyoos a Conservative plant? If not, he should stick to doing the farm reports.
Jaundiced Eye: wasn’t that interview something?
Dinning’s responses were pitiful. Yes, he took the government’s survey, but no, he had nothing to say about it being biased for failing to offer the option of saying no we don’t want to leave the CPP.
He had no good answer for why Alberta says it’s entitled to more than half the CPP fund or that this interpretation would give 3 provinces (Alberta, BC, and Ont) 128% of the fund if all three decided to walk.
He ducked when it was suggested that people were being asked to vote yes or no without being given the information they needed to make an informed decision.
But the response that blew me away was when Kathleen Petty asked him if he’d recommend against a referendum if the feedback was that Albertans want to in CPP. All he said was “What an interesting question.” Seems to me he doesn’t know what his mandate is, or it’s a foregone conclusion that Smith is going to have a referendum on this no matter what Albertans tell her .
And that’s how we roll in Alberta.
By “safeguarding the pension plan”, Pierre of course means keeping it in place until the Cons can figure out a way to loot it without the finger being pointed at them…
Susan: Here is my final song pick. This song is from The Beatles, and was written by Paul McCartney. It is Hey Jude. The song was released in 1968. I did see Paul McCartney live in 2012, and this was part of the set list. I also saw Ringo Starr and His All Starr Band, live in 2015. This is an uplifting song. Our parents weren’t too keen on our musical tastes, but this music has stood the test of time.
Talking about the test of time – all their sounds are well and alive.
Dwayne, I really like the sentiment expressed in that song: “Take a sad song and make it better.” I guess is we keep talking about all these issues we too will (eventually) make life in Alberta better. Thanks!
It is important that Ms. Smith understands that pension funds are not slush funds. The managers of a pension fund have a legal responsibility to act in the best interest of the fund’s members and no one else. They cannot invest in anything that benefits others (such as Alberta) over the members of the fund. Ms. Smith can refer to the 1984 UK High Court ruling in Cowan v Scargill for further clarification.
I couldn’t get past your first sentence. She doesn’t.
Kate: well, that is true!
W B Hopchin. thanks for your comment. You make a good point.
My concern is that Smith will pass legislation giving her the legal authority to direct the APP fund managers to invest a certain percentage of the fund in the fossil fuel sector. Alberta is already heavily dependent on fossil fuels (ie. royalties, taxes, and employment,). It is ridiculously risky to make things worse by tying Alberans’ pension funds to that sector too.
Luv them apples…a bushel on Smith’s doorstep
Diane C and Kate H: You’ve both expressed my sentiments exactly! 🙂
I think Smith and Poilievre tend to work together, and he provides her with an out if she cannot persuade Albertans to go along with her stupid APP plan. She can pretend Poilievre was so diplomatic that he persuaded her to back off because he is a better negotiator than our current PM.
It’s hogwash, of course, because Poilievre is too obnoxious to be diplomatic and he is foolish enough to think munching an apple makes him look tough. Several tweeters have pointed out that in movies and TV it’s the villain who eats an apple.
https://screenrant.com/movie-villains-eating-applies-reason-why/
I agree, Valerie. His letter and her response were choreographed, as is much of their exchanges. Transparent at the least.
Comment: as I mentioned to Valerie. I think this one is going to backfire on Smith big time. I wonder if this will be enough to shake the faith of her “Free Alberta” base.
Valeria Jobson: While I agree that Smith wants to align herself with Poilievre and vice versa, Smith really overplayed her hand by suggesting Alberta is entitled to 53% of the CPP fund. The minute she put that on the table she painted Poilievre into a corner. He has no choice, he can’t back her without losing the rest of the country.
People say Smith is a smart politician, I don’t believe that. I think she’s slick and brazen, but she doesn’t understand what she’s doing (or she’s so blinded by ideology she can’t see when she’s walked into a hornet’s nest).
If she’d asked for 16% to 20% of the CPP fund she would have stood a chance, instead she claimed 53% of the fund. That guts the fund, making it so unstable that the rest of the provinces and the feds have no choice but to fight it with everything they can.
She should have seen this coming. She didn’t. That tells you everything you need to know about Smith’s political acumen.
I agree with you Susan – if people think Danielle Smith is a smart politician than we are accepting that smart means evil
Hello Susan and fellow commenters,
I don’t know how the CPP is actually structured or any of the legalities. However, it seems to me that the contributions are individual, not paid by any province (except Quebec which has always had its own parallel plan) or territory. Therefore, I can’t see how Alberta as a province can be entitled to any share of it. The assets of the CPP, logically, belong to the individual contributors who receive or will be entitled to receive a pension from the assets which exist now and will exist in the future.
The logical outcome should be that, if Alberta sets up its own plan, workers who have contributed should be entitled to receive their pension when they are entitled to it.
I would think that the fair way to
Christina, I had the exact same thought as you. To my knowledge, CPP contributions are made by workers and their employers, not by governments, and belong solely to the workers in whose name the contributions are made. I fail to understand how any government can lay legitimate claim to any portion of the CPP. The rules for contribution are the same everywhere in the country (except for Quebec which was never in the CPP to begin with) so geography and provincial jurisdiction are not factors. As I see it this whole thing is just another UCP scam to gain control of public funds and redirect them to suit their own agenda. Grifters gonna grift.
Nailed in the head GUY – all they want is
‘As I see it this whole thing is just another UCP scam to gain control of public funds and redirect them to suit their own agenda’
Can anyone tell me where is the 10 Billion surplus that was supposed to be going to the Heritage Trust Fund?
Maybe they could not find the account anymore!!!
Guy, an earlier column posted by Susan had a quote from Danielle Smith regarding the true reason behind an APP, which to paraphrase was to gain control of the pension funds. Not to provide Albertans with a ‘better’ pension, but to GAIN CONTROL OF a whacking great pile of money, to use as they deemed fit. As a member of a public pension fund in Alberta I can testify that the provincial government is not in any way concerned with providing better benefits for plan members. Nope, they want control of those dollars & have in fact instructed AimCo to ‘invest’ in oil & gas projects regardless of whether it was in the ‘best interests’ of the plan members or not.
Linda, thanks for that comment. It seems to me that there’s nothing Smith won’t do to help the fossil fuel industry whether they need it or not. Orphan and abandoned wells, no problem. Tax breaks, knock yourself out. Subsidies, sure here’s bunch. Free advertising, here you go.
It’s shameful how much support the industry is getting while at the same time not doing much (other than talk) about how they’re taking care of the environment and creating well paying jobs. But you know the old saying: privatize the profits and socialize the costs.
Christina, and Guy: thanks for your comments. You’re right that the contributions are paid into the CPP by individuals and their employers. An independent board, the CPP Investment Board, administers those funds and has been doing a bang up job of it for years. The Canada Pension Act allows a province to withdraw from CPP and set up its own pension plan. The Act provides a formula to calculate how much much money that province can transfer out of the CPP fund into the provincial fund. However, Trevor Tombe, a respected economist, says the language in the Act is outdated and will not be used to determine how much money the province will get at the end of the day. Consequently if Albertans vote in a referendum to withdraw from CPP, and the Alberta government tries to start the withdrawal process this whole thing is going to end up in court. You can bet on it that all of the other provinces and the federal government (Liberal or Conservative, it doesn’t matter) will oppose Albertan’s interpretation of their “fair share” of the CPP fund.
And this whole thing will turn into an expensive and divisive stunt by our “free Alberta” premier.
What’s really upsetting is there are so many other things we should be spending our energies and tax dollars on (education, healthcare, the environment, homelessness).
Amen, Susan. I actually said jus that in the comment sections of the UCP’s public survey re their APP proposition.
Hello Susan,
I guess that Pierre Poilievre doesn’t remember the fate of that other muncher, the cookie monster, aka Dr.Stephen Duckett who lost his plush employment at Alberta Health Services after munching on an oatmeal raisin cookie. On the other hand, I think I read that Pierre was eating a Nova Scotia apple, maybe it was even from the Annapolis Valley, which is one of Canada’s 2 best locations for apples. So, I suppose we must give him some leeway for eating such enticing apple.
Christine Ingham: Oh that’s right! I’d forgotten about Dr Duckett and his cookie!
I love apples! I don’t know if I’ve ever had an Annapolis Valley apple. Is it like Pink Lady, Honey Crunch (I think that’s what it’s called)? What’s the 2 location you mentioned?
One thought occurred to me as I started reading this article. Will a lot of trained professionals and trades workers start leaving Alberta to make sure their pensions are better secured in other provinces by CCP.
Elmer Kabush: You raise a very good question. I suspect the younger workers who aren’t thinking about retirement yet might stick around, however the middle-aged workers and older ones may decide to move to more reasonable provinces. Especially if they planned on retiring elsewhere anyway.
Some interesting names come up: LifeWorks, aka Morneau Shapell
Is this some twisted revenge story that needs further investigation?
Someone: You’re right in that Smith and Dinning keep referring to the LifeWorks report as the Morneau Shapell (MS) report. I believe they’re hoping Albertas will assume that the $344 billion number is sound because Bill Morneau was the head of MS (and a Liberal to boot). However, Bill Morneau pulled out of the day-to-day management of MS when he joined the Trudeau government and he’s had nothing to do with the company since.
I am totally opposed to APP. Through all my working years I contributed to CPP and now on that pension. I do not want oAlberta to take our money and create her own plan. Hope next election she gets voted out!
Hi Joyce – with all the propaganda she is putting out there and the manipulation and spin she is using I think you will see that she will be seen as an APP hero. Albertans are great at being brainwashed by their rural gurus.
Carlos – I wrote something similar on another blog. I fear the voices of reason will be lost, if not already lost, to the propaganda and advertising campaign of the UCP spin doctors. Mostly though, because it has been pitted as us vs. Trudeau/east, I fear the APP will be an automatic shoe-in. That’s how it goes in AB; I hear it every day in the rural riding I live in. People here have no problem cutting off their noses to spite their faces, but this one will affect the entire country.
Comment and Carlos: one upside to all of Smith’s propaganda is her message is being heard across the entire country and as we’ve seen over the last few days, the ROC is not happy with what she’s spinning. It will be interesting to see how she climbs down from her untenable position.
Although I do not live in a rural area of Alberta I know that it is exactly what you said. It is really too bad that we are so divided. It seems that they are still living in the times of Bible Manning. It is interesting because this kind of divide was normal in years when information was not even close to what it is today, but now? People just refuse to improve their lives and their minds. It is their right of course, but they do not even realize they are going against their own interest. Who the heck still believes that Danielle Smith is actually concerned about the quality of our pensions? What she is concerned about is what she has always been focused on and that is serving oil interests. She was and is an oil lobbyists and her interests are what percentage she will get when she gets that money to them. I am sure at this point they do not even need it anymore, they have way more in their coffers.
Furthermore if Albertans believe that she is going to get the 300 billion she is looking for then we have a much bigger problem that could be our end. We have been a strong province but only because of oil. As far as politics other than Peter Lougheed, the rest is just third world material.
Joyce Law: I”m with you 100%. I’ve worked in BC, Ontario and Alberta. I, together with my employer, made contributions to CPP for decades. CPP is a well run national plan. It’s very existence as a national plan means that I can work anywhere in Canada and never have to worry about my pension benefits being reduced.
Some might call her a shrewd politician others might call her a liar !!!!
I am with Paul on this one. Anything this person says I do not believe. She is a moving target and she fully understands the ins and outs of Nazi propaganda and persuasion. Not surprising when her own party is not that far from their ideology and we all know where that took the German people.
What is coming next? Unilateral independence? Elimination of cancer treatment up to stage 4 and give people Horse drugs?
Carlos, you’ve touched on an important point. Smith is a politician who thinks she can say anything with impunity. She has no regard for the damage her ramblings may cause. She flip flops. She spreads misinformation. It never stops. I am hopeful that this latest fiasco will be her comeuppance because not only is half of Alberta against her. The rest of Canada is too.
Paul Pearlman: Agreed. Others might call her a politician blinded by ideology. I suspect it’s a combination of all three!
What Albertans should tell the rest of Canada is that during the provincial election, this champion of provincial rights promised not to touch our pensions. I think she also put the silly Sovereignty Act on some dysfunctional back burner.
But once elected, all her crazy ideas popped out within a month and we are back on the road to a landlocked sovereign Alberta….with Albertan’s hard earned pension funds invested in the bitumen..dilbit industry.
Now I know, she hasn’t promised Big Fossil Fuel companies….those heroes who produce our endless supply of bitumen and fossil fracked gas….that our Alberta pensions will be invested with them…..but it doesn’t take a degree in rocket science to see where an Alberta government directed pension plan is headed.
Can we say STRANDED ASSETS, boys and girls, working moms and dads, old grandpas and granies such as myself???? I fervently hope so.
And for all those discontents out there considering a vote for PP….try to remember: He’s from the same alt right wing of the conservative party as is our beloved Danielle. They promise to use common sense when in election mode, but if you give them a majority, all bets are off.
Ingamarie: excellent points here! Y
ears ago I worked for a natural gas company. Our CEO wanted to jump on the bandwagon that said corporations were more attractive to (institutional) shareholders if the company’s executives bought company shares. Supposedly this proved the executives had faith in the company and if they were prepared to risk their money then it must be a good investment. The lowest level of executives had to buy one times their annual salary in shares and the highest level, the CEO, would buy four times his annual salary in shares. Of course if the share price plummeted then the executives had to top up their shareholdings. One member of our Board, the CEO of a big oil company, had the decency to say it was a terrible idea because it placed undue risk on the executives who were tied to the company (sink or swim) for their jobs and their pensions, to make them risk one to four years of salary was unfair. In the end the CEO won the argument and about a decade later (after I’d left) the company’s shares took a nose dive and everyone lost their shirts.
Brilliant, eh, this is exactly what Smith is trying to do to Albertans. Sadly, many of them are too dense to see it.
Hi Susan,
Thanks for your posts.
I don’t want my CPP to go anywhere… I heard this add on the radio from DS advertising how much more seniors and “WORKERS’ would benefit from the APP. My first thought was are they (UCP) planning to Lump ALL pension funds into one big pot?? Like my LAPP pension? Is social security next? I know these are rhetorical questions but experience with how the UCP handles anything tells me otherwise. I have not filled in the survey as it is totally biased and who knows if they will take any negative comments into account.
Sorry.. Just a wee rant
Mary Jane Borg
>
Maryjane:
That’s a great question…I haven’t heard what Smith intends to do with the LAPP pensions, but she could make the argument that they should be combined to get more investment bang for the buck.
I agree with your comment that they say they want Albertans feedback but they’re doing everything they can (the government survey and its telephone townhalls are a joke) to avoid it. It feels very much like a foregone conclusion, doesn’t it.
Anyway, feel free to post your “wee rants” anytime. 🙂
Due to public pressure along with the fine work of the Toronto Star and the Narwhal, Doug Ford is reversing the Greenbelt Giveaway and the expanded boundaries of numerous municipalities. That is the difference between a Premier that is corrupt vs. having a Premier that is just this side of certifiable.
Jaundiced Eye: I loved this comment!
Susan for Premier!
how lucky we would be to have Susan in the government. Unfortunately people like Susan are not wanted in our political system. We are becoming irrelevant due to our political system.
Sadly, so true. Thinking people need not apply.
tulum0303: ah but thinking people can volunteer on campaigns, donate, and vote and that’s what we’re going to do. 🙂
Carlos, thank you for your kind comment. Actually there are quite a few really good people in the Legislature, unfortunately they’re in the Opposition. The other day I met Rakhi Pancholi (shadow minister for Education) for the first time. Wow, that woman is a crackerjack! And there are many more like her in the NDP caucus. We have to do everything we can to get them in to power in the next election.
Kate, you cracked me up! 🙂 🙂
Hi Susan – it is not a kind comment, it is reality. If we had people like you in government, this province would be a completely different place. I know there are other good people in the NDP and I am sure in the UCP but our system does not allow these people to come to the surface because crooks like Jason Kenney, Danielle Smith and her fans have no interest in solving any problem that does not include their personal interests.
One of my uncles use to say to me – ‘There will always be bad people in the world, it is human nature and inevitable. The secret is to keep them in small numbers and the good prevails. Since Trump and his evil empire open the doors to this disgrace we are certainly in a world that, to say the least , explosive.
I read this morning that Russia and China are basically ready to declare war on the West. If we do not find a way to get these people back in the closest we will have a terrible end.
Anyone that doubts this is in Danielle’s ‘Fantasy Thinking’ world she lives in.
Cannot miss this one
https://albertapolitics.ca/2023/10/congratulations-on-your-appointment-mr-dinning-your-pension-consultation-has-a-few-flaws-cpp-public-affairs-leader/
That is good, and I am going to copy a post I just made there:
Who wants to file for taxes twice every year like in Quebec?
See Duane Bratt’s thread explaining we would have to set up a separate tax collection agency for APP deductions:
https://nitter.net/DuaneBratt/status/1716481749059084317#m
And Shannon Phillips was told by the Finance Minister it would cost at least $500 million per year, plus the setup costs.
https://nitter.net/SPhillipsAB/status/1716807968694698110#m
Valerie: thanks for sharing these links. The more Albertans understand about what this is going to cost them, the better!
Carlos” this was a good one, wasn’t it!
Very good one and it clearly reflects wow individualistic and greedy our upper class has become.
I think Jim Dinning’s decision to support this APP cause is very reflective of how this people behave. Give the money and I will be whatever clown you want me to be, just give that certified check.
The UCP just want the APP so they can steal the money or at least move it to their supporters.
The “Quebec model” includes a clause that allows the Quebec government to invest in the Quebec economy. Smith wants a slush fund for her friends in the oil patch. Our pension money is the biggest pile in reach.
Brent: they certainly haven’t tried to hide the fact they want to invest our pension funds into things that “benefit” Alberta and what’s the most beneficial thing right now? The fossil fuel sector…at least in their opinion. Sad.
I don’t trust the UCP’s agenda for Alberta and Albertans. Karen, er I mean – Danielle Smith has a God Complex. I don’t like how the question isn’t being presently honestly and transparently to ALL Albertans on how we feel about pulling out of the CPP. I will once again say, that since the PC pissed away our Heritage Fund, they don’t have the privilege of leading this province. This is not the party that Peter Laugheed lead the province with. Pulling out of the CPP affects more Canadians than we will ever find out because we are not being informed and educated fully, honestly and with equal sided information.
Kimberlee: I 100% agree with everything you’ve said. Lougheed set the bar for good conservative government and it’s been downhill ever since. Given how much money poured into this province from the energy sector and its history of going boom and bust, it’s a crying shame that enough royalties and taxes weren’t collected to insulate Albertans from the inevitable slumps that foolw the booms. As we get closer to peak oil, this is only going to get worse.
Susan: I heard recently that the ultra secretive UCP got a study done in 2019, or in 2020, to see about the feasibility of the APP. This was based on the recommendations of the UCP’s Fair Deal Panel, which was nothing short of a joke, all by itself. The UCP didn’t want the results of this study to be made public.Through FOIP, or by some other means, people were able to access the conclusions of this study, and the findings were that an APP is not viable, and it is very risky. The UCP is aware of this, yet they are very intent on having the APP. Go figure.
I remember when Ralph Klein was more popular than he deserved to be and he tried to privatize health care; Albertans would not go along with it.
I think Smith is less popular and less trusted and will not be able persuade enough Albertans to go along with this bad idea of an APP.
She might manage to privatize health care; the propaganda for that is older and more pervasive.
If she wants to use an APP to shore up the small cap oil companies, she may run out of time; oil use is peaking now and will go down soon, and getting out of CPP would take negotiation and I think three years’ notice? I question if she will be around that long, though her replacement might try to carry on with it, especially if they are also a separatist.
Valerie – very true and negotiations will go for longer that 3 years. Does she think that the rest of Canada is going to allow her to take 53% of the total amount. There will be chicken with teeth before that happens. Even her clone in Ontario will not be with her of course. He at least seems to know math.
By the time this is all argued and she has already put people to sleep with her idiotic arguments, oil will be in decline and there is no more need for her to waste our money with her real bosses in the oil industry because they will quickly get the tent down to avoid the clean up like all others have done.
Furthermore, the way things are going in Canada and the world, who knows if even any of us will be here. The planet will finally have its opportunity to rebuild all that we destroyed.
Valerie Jobson: Ralph Klein was shooting his mouth off, way too much, and prior to a federal election in 2005, Ralph Klein said that he had the intention of pursuing a 3rd Way of healthcare in Alberta, which included private for profit healthcare prospects. The results? The CPC lost to Paul Martin’s Liberals. Peter MacKay, even went as far as to say that Ralph Klein’s mouth should be duct taped shut. Ralph Klein’s own Alberta PC party had lost faith in him, and gave him a 55% approval rating. Danielle Smith pursuing an APP, will cause the CPC to get defeated, and the UCP will dump Danielle Smith.
I hope you’re right, Dwayne, but meanwhile Smith, Anderson, Parker et al will have way too much time to break Alberta and Albertans.
I fully agree with you Mike and I think that the longer we accept this travesty the worse the damage will be.
Right now she is destroying our reputation because as much as we think ignoring it is a solution, we get the labels. So much for the Alberta Advantage. Who wants to move to a province that treats everyone as if somehow we are all children of sin that need to be dominated and spanked for our own good.
I am dismayed that we do not seem to be able to mount some kind of a wall against this vicious person and her rural friends. We live in one of richest cities in Canada and we seem to be aloof and just ignoring what is causing a lot of damage. Life is not only economic indexes.
I wished I had the network or access to it to just go to the legislature and demand at least one thing – lift the moratorium on green energy immediately. If they have concerns about clean up than just do something about the abandoned oil wells and no moneys from our taxes. Just raise taxes on all corporations and take away a percentage to start the clean up.
Here’s an important read on how Elections Alberta failed Albertans during Kenney’s referendum:
https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2023/10/25/Can-We-Trust-Elections-Alberta/
Great read Valerie. It is not surprising. Where there is a UCP member we all know nothing is trustable anymore. I am sure he got his hands in the RCMP investigation as well. Does anyone trust even the RCMP these days? I sure do not. The only body in Canada today I still kind of trust is the Supreme Court and we will see for how long. With Pierre Poilievre (I am the only one – type of guy) who knows how long before we get lost into the corrupt world that has been creeping in Canada since the start of the globalization garbage.
The world needs a reboot and I hope that does not need to include another world war.
Carlos: It’s unfortunate, but another world war seems like it is encroaching upon us. The governments need to come to their senses, but this may be too much to ask of them.
It started earlier than I expected – IT IS OBVIOUS this was going to happen but to be honest she is just playing controversy so that she stays in power because the only ideas she can come up with is bullying and destroying. She does not believe in the two below conspiracy theories:
DANIELLE HAVE YOU HEARD THERE IS NO AFFORDABLE HOUSING? How do people move to the Alberta Advantage without housing that does not take away 60 % of their salaries right off the bet?
HAVE YOU HEARD THERE IS AN OPIOD CRISIS? They should leave their offices and witness what I see everyday downtown. I heard comments like – How come we go to Europe to countries that are way poorer than Canada and we do not see people falling apart everywhere?
This is just 2 of them
Instead of feeding the Oil Companies, invest that money in our infrastructure, housing and stop the moratorium on green energy and let it all create real jobs rather than sending the money away to the coffers of fat pigs in the Bahamas.
https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/ontario-government-wants-ottawa-to-thwart-danielle-smith-s-cpp-withdrawal-scheme/article_78df07a6-cfd4-5ab4-b2d1-ec821d087b23.html
well I think the sinking is starting
https://globalnews.ca/news/10047939/ontario-asks-finance-ministers-meeting-albertas-proposal-exit-cpp/
Interesting did anyone see our Alberta Princess claim victory with this one?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/poilievre-anti-vaccine-mandate-bill-1.7007562
PP is still fighting the last war, I see. Gotta keep them troops riled up!
Wow I apologize for posting so many articles but I think we have to find ways to defeat this brain tumor in our province.
Here is a person that has misinformed people with propaganda about the CPP, has not allowed anyone to even question the separation, has used 7.5 million dollars with complete garbage on radio and TV and now she says that without information we will not have a referendum? My goodness if we do not get rid of this premier this province will die on its own weight of lies and corruption. How did we get to this point is something scary to think about.
https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/ontario-seeks-critical-meeting-over-albertas-plan-to-leave-cpp
There are only two things certain in this insane scam Smith is running.
1) Alberta will never get $334 billion out of the CPP.
2) Smith and the UCP/ Take Over Alberta/ Free Alberta Fantasy cabal want our pensions for an oil-patch slush fund.
OK, there is one more thing. Smith and her cronies/ enablers/ co-conspirators are utterly untrustworthy and will squander our pension money on a dying industry. The worse things get, the more they’ll steal from us. Hell, I wouldn’t even trust Rachel Notley with my pension!
‘I wouldn’t even trust Rachel Notley with my pension!’
Neither would I until we have profound political reforms
As if we haven’t had enough fun already….
https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2023/10/25/Can-We-Trust-Elections-Alberta/
This is not surprising – I do not even trust the RCMP in Alberta anymore until I see a complete report on what seems to be a forgotten issue with Jason Kenney and his twisted ways to win elections.
Right now I am very sad to say that there is one institution I still have respect for and ‘still’ trust – The Supreme Court. I hope it stays that away. I have no trust whatsoever in our political system. As far as provincial institutions I will say nothing because sometimes I feel I am living in some third world country with three piece suits.
I think this Premier is out to destroy Alberta!🤬 Many things she touches have become full of problems! Health Care has suffered! 🤬Education is suffering with decreased staffing, overcrowded classrooms, disgruntled underpaid teachers?🤬policing is also suffering due to her misleading statements🤬 Now she wants to ruin our pension plan? That will not benefit Albertans and could cause many problems in the rest of Canada!🤬 She wants her own little kingdom at the cost of all Canadians and most Albertans🤬
It took Alison Redford, the last leader of a somewhat conservative party who narrowly won an election, a few years to self destruct. Between a Sky Palace apartment and wanting plenty of space on government airplanes, her problems seemed to be mostly about arrogance and personal entitlement.
At this rate I wonder if Smith will go up in flames faster. It is rare that the PM, the leader of the opposition and Albertans all seem to be in agreement, but Smith seems to in a short time achieved the almost impossible and lined up everyone against her plan, including most Albertans who don’t trust her meddling with their pensions.
It probably doesn’t help that during the recent Alberta election she reassured us she was not going to do anything with our pensions. Now the UCP seems in overdrive to convince us that leaving the CPP is a good idea. Of course its our tax money they are spending to convince us, but it seems it is not going over well. It probably doesn’t help that to support their arguments, they came out with a dubious study that claims we can get a very disproportionate share of the CPP fund. If anyone thinks the rest of Canada will allow one province to run off with such a big chunk of the CPP they are at best badly mistaken and more likely delusional. I think even most Albertans realize that.
Today an excellent article by Jason Markusoff (hopefully I spelled that correctly) in the CBC on some of the pitfalls in Smith & crew’s APP proposal are. Basically points out that Smith is taking the best case scenario possible, presenting it as actual reality & fails to mention the lack of any cushion in the proposed scenario that could result in much less benefits to Albertans with much higher premiums down the road. Plus increase premiums for those still in CPP in future by a considerable amount.
I’m not surprised by the analysis – I didn’t believe for one second any of Smith & crews numbers or promises because the truth simply isn’t something they appear capable of uttering – but anyone considering the ‘benefits’ of an APP should take the time to read said article & consider just how likely it is that a government that has consistently said one thing & done another can be trusted with one’s retirement future.
One wonders if Smith recalls this:
In 1985, Solange Denis (b. 1922), a 63-year-old Ottawa woman, made national media headlines during a protest by seniors of the Conservative government’s plan to limit the inflation protection on Old Age Security pensions. Denis strongly attacked Prime Minister Brian Mulroney, contending that “You made promises that you wouldn’t touch anything…you lied to us. I was made to vote for you and then it’s Goodbye Charlie Brown,” (“You ‘lied’ on pensions, Mulroney told”, Toronto Star (June 20, 1985).) said Denis. The government later backed down on the proposal.
Randy Fiedler: that’s an excellent example. Thanks for passing it along. Hopefully Albertans will be just as outraged and Smith will be forced to back down.
Well, the next chapter has started already. Nate Horner assures us the APP decision will be based on a “high level of feeling from many sources.”
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/alberta-finance-minister-says-cpp-referendum-decision-will-be-based-on-high-level-feeling-from-many-sources-1.6621613
Why? Danielle Smith has already decided. Hers is the only “feeling” that matters. She’s gonna take our pension money and give it to her friends in the oilpatch, no matter how we feel about it.
Mike J Danysh: I agree it’s as if the APP is a foregone conclusion and yet it wasn’t mentioned in the Throne Speech or during the election. “Nothing to see here, folks.” Incredibly irresponsible.