The election of Donald Trump on Nov 5 left me feeling numb. Why? Because it confirmed my worst fears about the majority of Americans.
Over the coming weeks we’ll see many articles explaining what happen, why it happened, and who’s to blame, but one of the most insightful pieces I’ve seen is Dr Melanee Thomas’s interview on The Ryan Jesperson Show.
Dr Thomas said vote choice is a complicated matter. She pointed out that economic voting (which always punishes the incumbent), partisanship, and other factors influence the outcome, but that it’s impossible to understand what happened in the Trump/Harris election without understanding the role of race and racism and sexism.*
She acknowledged that many people refuse to believe this to be the case.
Until Nov 5, I was one of those people. I believed the world was a better, more egalitarian place than it was many years ago and that today merit counted more than the colour of someone’s skin or their gender.
You’d think after living in the US for seven years, I would have known better.
Our family resided in the US from 2000 to 2007 in Pennsylvania which. at that time, was a Democratic state.
We had a lovely house in a lovely neighbourhood and many well educated American friends. Naïvely, we believed that the occasional weird conversations we’d had with our friends were aberrations.
Weird conversations like the one with:
- A lawyer who graduated from one of the best law schools in the country and his wife, a VP with an insurance company, who asked how we could let our daughter date a Black guy in university. The lawyer assured us that it wasn’t that they had anything against Black people, some of the smartest lawyers in his firm were Black, but they would never allow their daughter to go out with a Black man. When we pressed him to explain why, he said we were Canadian and wouldn’t understand.
- A VP at a global chemical company and his well educated wife who was a docent at the Carnegie Museum of Art, who said it there was ever another 9/11, all of “them” should be rounded up and sent back to where “they” came from. We asked the VP to explain who “they” were and where “they” would be deported to if they’d been born and raised in the US. He said we couldn’t possibly understand, it was the US, not Canada, that had been attacked.
- Our (white) cleaning lady said we were not “real Americans” after we’d been granted citizenship because we weren’t born in America. (Apparently being white isn’t enough to be a real American if you weren’t born there, and being born there isn’t enough to be a real American if you’re not white).
Dr William Darity of Duke University said the predominant vote for Mr Trump was from white men and white women and this indicated that race is fundamental to why a black woman was trounced by a convicted white criminal.
Dr Darity concluded: “This election reveals what America has long been.”**
Having spend seven years in one of the more enlightened states in the USA, I was deeply saddened to discover than after 24 years, Drs Thomas and Darity were right.
Will we never learn?
*In particular, Dr Thomas cites “hostile sexism” which perceives power relations between men and women as a zero sum game (ie. men fall behind if women get ahead).
**Globe and Mail, Nov 9, 2024, A10
Susan on the Soapbox 
Found this rather insightful.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hfuti_iL2M
Found this rather insightful.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hfuti_iL2M
Thanks James. Tom Nichols is always worth a listen. Thank you for sharing this link.
Susan, I have worked a lot in the US over long years, lived there for 4-1/2 years. My last stint in Oklahoma taught me that being a citizen and being White didn’t count for much. Many of our neighbours were from other states and found that the putative “Southern charm” was mighty thin. These neighbours told me early that their only friends were from elsewhere than the South, even maybe as far away as Canada. For awhile.
Jim
Jim McPhail: your story reminded me of some of the people I worked with who were shocked at the idea of anyone spending their vacation anywhere other than in their own backyards, because there was no place on the planet that was as good as the good old USA.
Susan, I worked in Tulsa at the time, lived outside the town Broken Arrow. People there bragged they had never been out of the town, much less the state, even so far as Tulsa which is 17 miles away. Some seemed agog I could name the downtown towers.
Perhaps we also have to factor in the genocide in Gaza and the fact that neither party is going to intervene on the side of international law. I felt as a Canadian that perhaps it didn’t matter which party won, as both were war mongers of the most committed kind….even though the fact of the matter is that American people are being impoverished by a state that has over 800 military bases abroad…and illigal sanctions on over 40 countries.
The dominance game impoverishes. And if we dont’ have the understanding or the courage to reject that game, it leaves us eventually with no good options.
I too am shocked that Americans would vote for a man I consider both narcissistic and stupid…really, he knows very little about the actual state of the world, or the nature of the American constitution. But I’ve been listening to Scott Ritter on the situation in the Middle East…..and he is convincing me that Israel is losing….and American indifference to the genocide in Gaza is going to have long term consequence on the power of a country that is perhaps following in the footsteps of all Empires…..extending its frontiers infinitely, to the detriment of its own people.
As Canadians, we should consider keeping our distance from what Robinson Jeffers, a very pessimistic American poet, called “the thickening centre’.
noklebym: you raise a good point. I worry that Canada is too integrated (economically, at least) with the US as it is. I also worry that we have many, many resources (water, oil, natural gas, etc) that make us attractive to the Americans. If they want our resources and we refuse to hand them over willingly, God only knows what would happen. They are ten times bigger than we are and their military would swamp us in no time. With a maniac like Trump at the helm anything can happen.
For sure, if we imagine our white skins and similar history protect us from the resource extraction that has made America so powerful, we are naive.
Thanks for this Susan. This election result has felt like a gut punch – especially after having seen the unmasked hatred for Kamala (and women generally) expressed at the MSG rally – though there are many, many other examples of the ‘moral squalor’ of Trump and his henchmen (as per Fran Lebowitz). I agree with Dr Melanie Thompson’s analysis -thanks for sharing this link. It’s a sad, sad day for America and unfortunately the consequences will not be limited to those who live within the orders of the country – they will literally be global.
On a personal level, I find its important to triatrate between taking in the clarity of this decision interms of racism and sexism – the political animis could not be more clear. And resourcing myself with the company of family and friends and being so grateful for having them in my life. One opportunity to find some light in the darkness will be to go see Rachel Notely next Sat – she’s coming to Salt Spring! I know she lost, etc but she is such a good example of the fact that good people do enter politics and do work hard for the benefit of others – I’’m just happy to have a chance to go see and her her first hand.
So thanks as always for your thoughful offerings to the important political events of our time.
Susan, your point about leaning on your family and friends is well taken.
How nice for you that you’ll be seeing Rachel Notely this Sat. She’s one of the many good people who will never stop fighting to make the world a better place. She was an outstanding politician who was ten times better at leading Alberta than the UCP premiers who ousted her.
What mystifies me is the Albertans who are not impressed with Danielle Smith and who say they would have voted for Notley if she’d been the leader of the conservative party. I don’t think they understand that what they’re really saying is it’s not her policies they found objectionable, but her party label. This kind of thinking does my head in. But it’s consistent with what Tom Nichols says, that most voters aren’t voting ideologically anymore, they don’t even know which party stands for what, they’re voting emotionally for the person they think will give them what they want.
Yeah, my wife and I talked to an American fellow back during Trump’s first reign who actively disliked almost everything about him, but voted for him anyway because of his stand against Obamacare. In the run up to this election, we saw a TikTok video from a couple explaining why they voted for Trump despite not liking him personally, which was because he said the right things about religion (I don’t think the Orange Ego believes in any power greater than himself). To be fair, this couple did encourage everyone to got out to vote, without saying everyone had to vote their way or for their reasons.
Canadian politics is hard enough for me to figure out because all politicians claim they will do this, that and the other thing but seem to be not as strong on the follow through. I have not even tried to figure out US politics and must admit that what you have explained makes total sense. Right now I am glad I live in Canada.
Rose: I know what you mean about the difficulty in understanding what our politicians are offering and what they’re actually delivering. I was just reading about the Remembrance Day brouhaha. The Federal Conservatives said the Liberals banned prayer at Nov 11 ceremonies. Turns out this isn’t true. A few years ago the Supreme Court of Canada issued a decision requiring “religious neutrality”. The Chaplain General (not the federal government) issued a directive requiring chaplains to ensure their public addresses were more inclusive to reflect the spiritual diversity of Canadians and the members of the Armed Forces. This created so much confusion and fuss that the Chaplain General’s directive was put on hold for a year and all the Remembrance Day ceremonies went ahead under the old rules. So nothing changed. Still the Conservatives were all over the media claiming Trudeau had banned prayer at Remembrance Day ceremonies.
We the people deserve better from our politicians than lies and misinformation.
We lived in Texas for 5 years, until 1999 and had many similar conversations. One lovely old lady in our gated community said to me, “this used to be such a nice neighborhood until they allowed the “n word” to move in. We got offered green cards, but chose to come back to Canada instead. The amount of open racism and the number of our neighbours who had guns shocked me. I don’t think it’s gotten any better.
Eva, I don’t think it’s gotten any better either. We lived in the US from 2000 to 2007. At that time my secretary told me she had 37 guns in the house. When I asked why, she said it was just in case “they” break into the house. I asked who “they” were and she leaned closer and whispered “Blacks”. I suspect that if we had the same conversation today, she wouldn’t be whispering and she wouldn’t call “them” “Blacks.”
The reference to “not born here” reminds me of the couple from PEI right here in Canada where we don’t think like Americans. They were both multi generational PEI ers but were temporarily living in Ontario when their second son was born. Years later having returned to PEI for many years they would still hear references to their younger son as “being from away and not a red islander.
Yes, identifiable by race played a role but Joe Biden hanging on until it was too late to have a convention to choose an elected candidate with better credentials perhaps played a significant part. I too lived-in the USA for 5 years but was lucky to be in California so I encountered very little racism despite being darker skinned with very curly black hair caucasian.
Bill: Thanks for the example from PEI. It reminds me of all the Alberta politicians who make sure to say they’re “born and bred Albertans” in all of the promotional materials. Do they think Albertans, many of whom were not born and bred here, are going to question their bone fides if they were born in Ontario or something.
Also you make an excellent point about Biden hanging on too long. He did Harris and the Democrats a big disservice by refusing to step away earlier so that the Dems could let their process unfold properly. Harris may still have come out as the top candidate but at least the public would have had a chance to get to know her better.
Interesting point re: California. Nice to hear.
You hear the phrase, “That’s not who we are” quite often. Well, I guess we can put that one to bed. If those are the conversations you had in a blue state, imagine the conversations going on in the red states.
You hear the same “That’s not who we are” in Alberta, but it is who we are. Smith is still leading in all of the polls. People endorse her cruelty thinking it will never affect them. When it finally catches up with them they will all be whinging, “it was supposed to be for the other guy, not me”.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. H. L. Mencken
Thanks Susan, I too believed that it was different now. I am aghast at the result of this election.
Am I also blind to the same thing happening here? I hope not and I will be doing everything that I can to try to prevent that.
Irene
Irene, many of my friends are disheartened and discouraged by the US election and what is shaping up to be a miserable 4 years south of the border. They worry that soon Canada will follow suit. So it was good to see your comment. You’re right. We can’t afford to feel despair.Now, more than ever, we need to pick ourselves up and fight for democracy and the rule of law.
You are right! Undereducated people in this country are not ready for a black woman as president. What a shame!
The severely over-educated are also prone to prejudices. Look at who are the major funders for tRump.
William and Jim: I agree with you both. Although sometimes I think voter choice is driven by self interest which can be manipulated by unscrupulous politicians. I know of an Afghanistan vet who who voted for Trump because Trump promised to cut the tax on vets benefits. Then after Trump was elected he installed Elon Musk to cut federal expenditures by $2trillion and that other guy who said vets are freeloaders and should get a job. Had this vet voted for the “socialist” I don’t think his benefits would be at risk.
Ms Soapbox, with all due respect, I think this analysis is oversimplifying the reality of both this election, & recent provincial elections here in Canada. I’ve been listening to some very thoughtful & intelligent analysis of the US Presidential Election & its implications, & what inferences can be drawn from it. Please forgive me but this comment will be quite long.
Retired CBC journalist Keith Boag, on a couple of podcasts I listen to regularly, talked about the “neo-liberal orthodoxy” of the last four decades, that — in his words — the “free movement of capital, goods & labour across borders was a good thing”, & how many in both the US & Canada have been left behind as the good quality manufacturing jobs were displaced offshore.
Some of us are old enough to remember when the words “free trade” were anathema to leftist & even centre-left politicians & voters. The late John Turner & his vociferous opposition to the Canada-US FTA in the 1988 campaign, an agreement also opposed by Ed Broadbent & the NDP, come to mind.
But since then, the federal NDP has muted its opposition to free trade — if it even still opposes it at all. And yet, free trade has killed more good jobs than any other political development in our time. Before free trade, a single-worker family with kids could have a decent standard of living & could afford a house. No more. And before free trade, we didn’t see food banks in every city & town in Canada. They’re now ubiquitous.
Of course, free trade can’t be blamed for all the economic woes that have struck Canadian — & American — families in recent years, but the neo-liberal consensus that led to free trade, in which capital is more privileged than human beings, & workers are not assets but disposable liabilities, is absolutely at fault.
Sadly, though, I feel the left has largely lost the plot on these issues, no longer speaking to or for ordinary working people, & so the populist right is moving into the policy gap that has opened up. There’s a reason why conservatives in Canada, & Republicans in the US, win easily in regions with lower population density where the local economy & labour market are dominated by extractive industries & agriculture … they perceive the left as hostile to their individual micro-economic interests.
Conversely, Democrats in the US, & progressive parties in Canada, seem only to be able to win in regions with high population density where the economy & labour markets are dominated by knowledge workers, service industry workers, academia, health care, & the public sector. And, here in Canada, where we have multiple parties on the progressive side, vote-splitting can leave room for conservatives to still win in these areas.
Look at recent provincial elections in Canada. In 2023, Alberta’s United Conservative Party was shut out of Edmonton & won a minority of the seats in Calgary. But the NDP could only take two seats outside the big cities & so the UCP won a majority. Same thing happened in Manitoba, where the NDP won big in Winnipeg but lost outside the city; however, they did take some northern seats with high proportions of Indigenous population, which helped them win their majority.
This year in BC, the NDP & Greens took most of the seats in Greater Vancouver, northwards along the coast, & the lower half of the Island. But they only took a couple of seats in the southern Interior & were shut out in the North. Meanwhile, the Conservatives only won seats in Greater Vancouver & the Lower Mainland where NDP-Green vote split, allowing them to come up the middle.
Similarly, in Saskatchewan, the NDP won all the seats in Regina & most of the seats in Saskatoon, but were virtually shut out outside those two cities.
In New Brunswick too, the Liberals took most seats in the three big cities of Fredericton, Moncton & Saint John, & the mostly Francophone eastern coastline & northern border with Québec’s Gaspé region; the Progressive Conservative dominated in the mostly Anglophone rural interior.
Nova Scotia doesn’t vote yet for a couple more weeks, but there are three parties that viably contend for seats there, so I predict that the PC will win in rural, but in Metro Halifax & urban Cape Breton they will only win in seats with Liberal-NDP vote splits.
When Ontario next goes to the polls, Liberal-NDP vote splits may give the PCs opportunities in the GTA, the National Capital region & other metro areas, but I predict the Liberals & NDP will be shut out of the smaller centres & rural Ontario, & quite probably in the auto industry hubs of Oshawa & Windsor, as auto workers abandon their traditional alignment with the NDP.
Then, there’s the federal scene. We don’t know yet when the next election will be, although few expect the current government to last until the so-called “fixed election date” in October 2025. Most pundits expect it to be defeated in the House no later than the next budget in Spring 2025, although with the minority Parliament it could fall much sooner.
The Conservative Party of Canada (CPC) has a commanding lead in the polls outside Québec, although the sovereigntist Bloc Québécois is ahead in that province. The leading poll aggregators are projecting a strong CPC majority.
Quebec is a special case though, because while sovereigntists tend to lean progressive/left in most areas, such as economic & fiscal policy, reproductive freedom, SOGIE issues, & many others, they are also ethnocentric & skeptical about immigration, especially from countries with non-white majority populations — which aligns more with the right.
South of the border, the Presidential map is as clear as day: the Democrats could only win on the coasts, while the Republicans dominated everywhere else. But that pattern wasn’t limited to the Presidential election. For the House of Representatives, Republican red covers the map between the coasts, & in California even the interior of the state, with only a thin blue fringe of Democrats along the coastline. Flashes of Democrat blue also appear in New York & the New England states, & around Washington DC.
As for the US Senate, of those seats being contested this time around, the only exception to the coastal versus interior pattern is in the Great Lakes & Southwest regions.
What about the sub-national level? Unlike many states of the US, Canadian provincial elections are not synchronized with federal elections, but instead are completely independent of the federal level — & of each other. I’ve already discussed 7 of the 10 provinces above — those that have had recent elections, are in the midst of elections, or where elections are impending.
In the others, Newfoundland & Labrador has a Liberal government, Prince Edward Island a Progressive Conservative one. Québec’s governing party is the “Coalition Avenir Québec” — coalition for Québec’s future — or CAQ.
But in the US, 11 states held elections for governor, & the Dems only won two: North Carolina & Washington. Republicans control 27 of the state Houses of Representatives, mostly in the interior, & Democrats 21, predominantly on the West Coast, New York & New England, and a few of the interior states. Alaska has a bipartisan coalition. Nebraska doesn’t have a state House: its legislature is unicameral & its Senate is formally non-partisan but Republicans dominate its seats. Republicans control 29 state Senates, Dems 20.
So, what lessons can be drawn from all this? In my view, there are many. Firstly, while thoughtful progressives can draw a clear line between social injustice — as in inequity, exclusion & discrimination — and economic injustice, we have collectively done a piss-poor job of articulating that to ordinary working people, especially those without a university education.
Secondly, the progressive side of the spectrum can’t continue to rely for support on highly urbanized areas. We need to reconnect with labour, especially private sector labour, both organized & unorganized. We need to renew our appeal to those people who, in the words of a prominent Canadian conservative strategist, “shower at the end of the working day, not the beginning”. We need to demonstrate that concerns for the environment notwithstanding, we are not hostile to their economic interests.
That’s what the American election, & recent elections in Canada, are telling us. Failure to listen to & learn from these lessons is not an option.
jereymacgp thank you for this very thoughtful comment. I agree that it’s a mistake to land on just one issue as the reason behind the vote, Dr. Melanee Thomas said the same thing when she said economic issues, partisanship and other factors played a role, but she chose to highlight racism and sexism as factors which cannot be overlooked when trying to explain why people vote the way they do. As you indicate, the issue of voter choice is very complicated. I will check out the podcast you mention to get a better understanding of these issues.
Thanks again for your thoughtful comments.
There are two pods relevant to my comment: former Liberal strategist David Herle’s The Herle Berle, & Peter Mansbridge’s The Bridge.
jerrymacgp: I just re-read your first comment. Thank you again for that thoughtful and comprehensive analysis. I’ll definitely check out the pod casts you’ve mentioned.
Nice smart comments Jerry – I love reading them and that is why I mentioned that it was too quite here. LOL
We are lucky to have some very smart people posting in this blog.
‘That’s what the American election, & recent elections in Canada, are telling us. Failure to listen to & learn from these lessons is not an option.’
Absolutely agree but we have been doing it for 3 decades and I personally absolutely believe this to be the main reason for the failure of the democratic system.
It is corrupt, the rules are to give the rich and powerful the control of the process, to intentionally destroy the middle class and cause doubt and chaos that will eventually destroy the system from within.
The political class is fully responsible, in my view, for what it is happening.
Carlos: I was listening to a CBC interview with the Nobel prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz who said where we find ourselves now is the culmination of “the output of a three-decade increase in inequality.” He said the American Dream has been eviscerated, people know it, and did exactly what he predicted they’d do a decade ago. They elected “a demagogue.”
So here’s my question, how do we turn this around when the people who benefit the most from this growing inequity have an ironclad grip on the politicians who continue to structure the world in ways that benefit them to the detriment of everyone else.
I’ve put Stiglitz’s book on my Christmas list. Hopefully he provides some answers.
Of course she had to go. She will be first in line for liars, criminals and whatever else that is the opposite of what a regular person calls the rule of law.
The deranged era is on and who knows if we ever get rid of it. This is the perfect unregulated era for people like Trump to avoid the the law and suck as much money as they can
https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/alta-premier-danielle-smith-will-be-in-washington-for-trump-inauguration-1.7112205
Hard to even imagine what they will be teaching our kids and grand kids for the coming corrupt Colombia style North America.
What a profound shame.
Carlos: what’s interesting about Smith charging down there is that as far as Trump’s concerned she’s a nobody. But never mind, it makes for good PR for her supporters back home.
Trump is not wrong on that one because she is a nobody.
This is not just a Harsh reality , this is the end of decency. Some of these people are not in jail YET.
It is hard to even imagine this would happen in the new century. Corruption and liars are now the Heroes.
I am profoundly embarrased and I will not ever forgive myself for allowing this to be established in our great Canada. The fascists finally are bringing us Armageddon. I am sure they are very proud of it.
Poilievre, Smith Moe, Ford are all strong neoliberals so it meaning the road to Fascism is already here. Preston Manning, Stephen Harper, and prior it started with Mulroney but the world went wild over. Free Trade and less regulation, mistrust of institutions and governments, unbridled capitalism and this is where we r. Polarized, housing and food crisises And no changes in the wind
Unfortunately that is so true. Unregualted capitalism is becoming incestuous and will destroy what is left in this beautiful planet.
Davidcodeclements and Carlos: things are indeed dire. The one glimmer of hope (and it is a small one) was a comment made by the economist Joseph Stiglitz in the CBC interview I referred to earlier in which he said, economists have reached a broad consensus that a lack of institutional stability (the rule of law, checks and balances, etc) will result in economic stability. And if nothing else, the proponents of free trade, deregulation, low taxes and neoliberalism will start to push for institutional stability when they see they’re at risk of losing everything. Of course, this also means things are going to get really, really bad before they get better.
“Whither goest thou, America, in thy shiny cyberpanzer in the night?” ~ Jack Kerouac
Closer to home, I wonder how many Albertans are aware of this:
“With Alberta’s innovative approach to enable halal mortages, more people may be able to access mortage lending services in this province.”
– Danielle Smith
Since the christian bible also says not to charge interest on loans (usury), the province ought to be expected to vastly expand this program of interest-free mortages to include all Albertans
And as the allegedly xtian-based UCP have yet to, I suggest the NDP should put forward a bill to that effect.
I mean, in all fairness.
Write your MLA today.
‘Since the Christian bible also says not to charge interest on loans (usury), the province ought to be expected to vastly expand this program of interest-free mortgages to include all Albertans’
Danielle Smith only cares about the Bible when it serves her interests just like all of her cultist members of ‘Take Back Alberta’.
The only reason she made the comment about the Halal Mortgages is just the usual propaganda to say that they care.
Do you believe Danielle Smith is going to allow mortgages without interest rates? If she does and decides not to extend it to all other Albertans, half this province will be Muslim in less than a year.
It’s already happening Carlos:
https://www.halalfinancialcorp.com/in-the-news/endorsements
“Unlike an agreement with a bank where repeated failed payments would lead to foreclosure, he said the enterprise has a mediation process through spiritual leaders to resolve issues.”
The rationalization is that the ‘fees’ are the substitute for the ‘interest’.
But if so, it is still effectively a recession-proof, non-compunding fixed interest mortage that the home buyer CANNOT BE FORECLOSED ON IN THE EVENT OF NON-PAYMENT… I’d pay quite a premium for that luxury, and I’d wager so too would most any other wannabe home buyers in Alberta.
It is unclear if the ‘rate’ (labeled ‘profit’) is the same for all applicants; I mean it’s based on and administered by adherents of Sharia Law, after all. And I am well aware how that refers to, say, atheists.
“As a Shariah Law compliant financing corporation, we do not calculate our cost, or profit, based on interest rates.”
And
“Our clients are required to contribute a minimum 20% of the market value, or purchase price, of the halal financed house, whichever is lower. Canadian Halal Financial Corporation finances up to 80%.”
Nothing about interest being added to either the market value or purchase price.
Also worth noting: an a+ credit rating is required before even applying, but how does one achieve that without already having engaged in usury?
Inquiring minds want to know. Somebody should call Ezra Levant, I would be fascisnated to see how HE rationalizes his support for this.
I have to confess I do not understand this at all.
They do have interest although they change the name to fees.
also how can the contract be against Sharia Law when that is not recognized in Canada?
I am not sure this is like a 100% legal thing to do.
Frankly Carlos, I doubt we are meant to understand it, because we don’t think in terms of Danni and Davy’s quackspeak. Hocus Pocus!
It seems a process designed to be opaque, but hiding in plain sight. And we all know that the UCP act as if laws don’t bind them or their donors, only everyone else.
For me the main points of contention are:
If, “As a Shariah Law compliant financing corporation, we do not calculate our cost, or profit, based on interest rates.”
Well what are the metrics used by a ‘Shariah Law compliant financing corporation’ for deciding their ‘profit, or cost’ then?
Are the ‘fees’ a set amount, or do they vary from client to client, depending on the principles of Sharia Law?
Could they even be completely waived, should a client meet some undefined, arbitrary ‘standard’, or circumstance? Which would be a truly, honest to god, interest free mortage; not to mention completely unfair to every other normal mortage paying Albertan.
As you’ve asked, how is it legally possible that there can be no ‘foreclosure in the event of non-repayment of the mortage’? No banque offers anyone else a deal that sweet, everyone is going to want this!
And, to repeat a question: how can an applicant be expected to have an excellent credit rating, when the reason they are seeking a mortage from a ‘Shariah Law compliant financing corporation’ is because they refuse to engage with usurers?
Finally, why isn’t there a non-denominational version of this being introduced for every Albertan?
Also worth noting: this was implemented BEFORE the last election, but apparently more quietly than a mouse.
Oh Yes I fully understand it now.
This is like some deal to accommodate the Muslim world so that we continue to be the nice Canadians. We take care of everyone except our own. Yes I know sounds racist, and probably is but you know it is time that we are allowed to say what we think and if people think it is racist then let us debate it. As a Canadian citizen I have the right to question these deals. If this exists in Canada I want to know how it works.
Furthermore, this also sounds like some company that is doing non obvious business in order to accommodate the no interest but interest agreements. I got it. There are always people ready to take advantage of everything. Called them fees and no one will notice.
Yes any legal document against Sharia Law is as valid in Canada as my drivers license in Antarctica. So I am not sure how this happens.
If Danielle Smith is allowing this to happen in Alberta I am interested in knowing it. It surprised me that Susan does not know about this as being possible.
Ezra Levant, just like the gang here will do anything that serves his interests.
Carlos and GoinFawr: I’d like to do some more search on this topic before I comment. If anyone has any links we can review that would be helpful. Until then I suggest we pause the conversation. Much appreciated.
Also my laptop just fried itself so I’m working on my iPad which is pitiful when it comes to opening various document without dropping me out of WordPress. Thanks guys.
Goinfawr: I wasn’t aware of this “innovative approach to enable halal mortgages,” and I love your suggestion that it would be consistent with the Christian bible to ensure interest free mortgages are available to all Albertans. Write you MLA today!!!
We have a close friend, a transplanted Vermonter, who is now a dual citizen. He campaigned hard for Harris
Connie, that’s good to hear. :
We are too quiet here. I am going to post a FACT. We get a lot of theater from the UCP trying to bully everything and everyone but none of it is worth a penny.
So I like people to read FACTS and go back to a time when they matter.
This of course was the BIG IMPORTANT Referendum from our now gone UCP saviour. We have a new one now that seems a bit harder to get rid of but it will come sooner or later. There are too many bosses in the UCP that want to take the province back to Rupert’s Land and that are salivating to get her job.
https://albertapolitics.ca/2024/11/the-judgment-of-history-confirmed-jason-kenneys-equalization-motion-in-the-legislature-is-deader-than-the-proverbial-mackerel/
Carlos, Kenney’s referendum was dead in the water on day one. He knew it and we knew it, but it was a nice bit of performance art for his supporters. Smith pulled the same crowd-pleasing stunt with the Sovereignty Act, which when she finally uses it somewhere, will be struck down by the Supreme Court of Canada. It’s all about sticking it to Trudeau. An expensive and stupid waste of time.
Trump is not the typical politician and seems to gets judged and treated differently by the media and voters. Perhaps the bar is set so low for him that if he doesn’t say or do something crazy for a few days, some people start to think he is ok. And he is capable of restraining himself for a few days, particularly around elections.
Interestingly, he gets treated differently than other conservative politicians. Others like De Santis try to imitate or exceed him, but not with the same degree of success. There is a cult of personality with Trump which I believe comes in large part from him being a TV celebrity before he became a politician.
The economy in the US is not doing that great. The rosy averages hide a picture of many struggling while the perceived elites do well and are comfortable. This hurt the incumbents, more than those elites who tend to dominate media and public discussion, really understood. It is not a good time to be an incumbent in any election and Harris, being Vice President, was too closely tied to incumbency and she did not quite appeal as much to some of the Biden coalition. Also voters did not feel the Democrats were being honest about the President’s health or stamina, after the first Presidential debate debacle.
Lastly, people forgot to some degree, about what a mess Trump’s first term was. I suppose they are about to be reminded very soon. Sometimes, after an election, there is buyers remorse. I expect that to happen in a few months after all the chaos starts to happen again. Some people love that about Trump, but I suspect even for many who voted for him, that is a bug, not a feature.
Dave I am not sure I agree with your last paragraph.
I really do not think his supporters had any buyers remorse. They all think that the economy was better, everything else was just perfect. How would you explain that they voted him in again?
The chaos of January 6th if anything, made them closer and more combative even after going to jail. I do believe that Trump is stronger than ever right now and I doubt they will think any less of him even if he screws the country to misery level, because someone else will be blamed.
My opinion based on what I have witnessed all along.
Carlos: I think some Trump supporters will experience buyers remorse, but you’re right, many (perhaps most) Trump supporters view him as the “chosen one” who promised to fix everything. When Trump sees things falling apart he won’t fall on his sword, he’ll point the finger at some other group and say, they’re the culprits, it’s their fault. That’s what autocrats do.
Dave, you raise good points here. The thing I’m going to watch with a great degree of interest is how Trump’s supporters react when their services are cut (because Elon Musk is going to make the government “more efficient”), and their labour force is decimated (because of mass deportations) and their healthcare goes down the tubes (because Kennedy is a nutbar) and inflation eats into their buying power (because tariffs don’t work the way Trump thinks they work). And so on.
When Trump was last in office he had some decent people trying to work around him so he wouldn’t burn the country to the ground. They’re all gone. Now it’s the Donald Trump Show, 24/7. This is not going to end well.
Carlos, you’re right, it is very quiet here but I think understandably so. Like Susan, I’m numb as well from the results of the U.S. election and, combined with the state of politics in this province, I’m struggling to understand what’s happening around us. Why are so many people willing and eager to jump aboard the Crazy Train? (thanks Ozzy Osborne for the metaphor)
My own conclusion, which I acknowledge may be simplistic or naive but appears to me to hold water nonetheless, is that the majority of us are now voting for economic prosperity above everything else. On a societal level Americans and Albertans have clearly shown that the majority are willing to sacrifice the environment, forfeit personal rights and freedoms, ignore the destruction of our public institutions, bow to autocratic governments and accept a complete lack of simple human decency in our political leaders if we think it will keep the economy strong and enrich us personally along the way. The election results indicate to me that the majority of us have now succumbed to the unrelenting pressure to monetize everything and we are now acting with our eyes fixed firmly on our personal bottom line. In short, most of us have now become the good little capitalists that we have been conditioned to be.
I had intended to reply to @jerrymacgp’s thoughtful and well-written post above because much of it resonated with me but I simply couldn’t summon the ambition at the time. Thanks to him for taking the time and effort to write it. This phrase in particular grabbed my attention: “…capital is more privileged than human beings, & workers are not assets but disposable liabilities…”. This has long been my view of our society and I believe that if you look at all or most of what we might describe as our societal ills through this lens it can be seen as a root cause.
Our society functions as a business, focused on money and profit, not as a place where humans are encouraged to interact positively with each other, promoting personal growth and fulfillment and nurturing of the environment that we depend upon for survival. Many of us feel the effects of that in our daily lives, perhaps never fully understanding why we feel perpetually unfulfilled. Joy and emotional reward become increasingly elusive as we struggle a little more each day to keep our heads above water in the service of ‘the economy’. It’s a fertile environment for the development of chronic physical and mental health issues, addictions, domestic violence, crime and any number of other problems that we encounter in our society but seemingly have no answer for. Sadly, it seems that we have reached a place where only about half of us believe that these are problems that need to be addressed for the betterment of us all. I suspect that the other half would argue that they are just the cost of doing business.
Fundamentally, I believe that capitalism and humanity are at odds with each other and that the two are finding it increasingly difficult to coexist. It seems obvious though that capitalism, being a human construct, is fully dependent upon humans for its continued existence. The reverse isn’t true at all though. That is actually more of a conditioned belief that too many of us have adopted and for which we are all now paying the price. If more people would consider this when they vote and prioritize people over profit we might find ourselves on the path to a world of more lasting and meaningful prosperity than the one we are living in now.
Guy just a little correction about what I menat about the ‘quiet here’. I did not mean Susan’s posts. I meant the rest of us.
Your Post is great to read and I agree with what you saying as if was myself writing it. Clear and to me a very good and correct reflection of what is happening. These are difficult times to navigate through.
Reading these posts make me feel more in a virtual good place.
Thanks for the reply Carlos. I’m glad that you got something out of my comment. I had intended to post it as a reply to yours but I made new comment by mistake. In any case, I know that you like to encourage discussion here and I took the meaning of your ‘quiet’ comment in the way that you had intended it. I always enjoy reading your contributions here and look forward to your next one.
Guy and Carlos: thank you for this discussion.
We’re lucky this site attracts so many thoughtful people who care deeply about the impact of corrosive capitalism on our democracy and the people who deserve so much more from their government.
Please don’t give up. Those of us who understand what is happening have to stick together. Community is the only thing that will save us.
tulum0303
This is excellent advice. Let me add that the stronger the community is, the more influence it will have.
Everyone with some brains knew that Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of Economics was full of pressured air. But we pursued those policies because of course, IT WAS INEVITABLE. Remember the days and Years? The invisible hand of the market, it is inevitable and we will all benefit.
No one believed it but that is what Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher wanted and with the help of many invisible hands, we created the billionaires and destroyed the middle class.
Now of course we are trying to find the policies to create the first trillionaires and no middle class AT ALL.
It is sad how our governments participate in these fads and propaganda and advance misery and the destruction of our planet. Most of them knew these would be the results but this is what they wanted. Lie and conquer.
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/our-1980s-view-on-the-world-has-led-to-trump-elon-musk-how-does-the/article_97b82c78-a5bf-11ef-baf6-53e6189253bc.html
Carlos, thanks for the link. I think you’re absolutely right. As you said, too many governments have played along with the wealthy to make them even wealthier. However lately, I’ve begun to notice more stories that show the invisible hand and the self-regulating marketplace to be a myth and trickle down economics to be a smokescreen used by the wealthy to grow richer at the expense of everyone else. This can’t continue. Too many people that I would characterize as much more conservative than I am are beginning to see through it.
One young guy I know said what this country needs is someone who truly represents the working class. He went so far as to say that if the federal NDP had a different leader who espoused clear socialist policies the country would have a real choice going into the next election. I believe change is coming. And it won’t be led by someone who says they support the social safety net and public services, but then sells to big business. It will be led by someone who really means it. Interesting times ahead!
I wished I could agree with your last thought but with Trump in the US that becomes very difficult.
Without Trump there would still be almost impossible. It hurts that we are so embedded in this capitalist race to catastrophe.
Fair point Carlos.
Book time again – I just finished a good book by historian Timothy Garton Ash titled ‘Homelands’. If you are looking for a nice reading book for the holidays, try it.
Carlos, thanks for the recommendation.
‘Dr Darity concluded: “This election reveals what America has long been.”**’
I agree with Dr. Darity. The US has had their fingers in most countries around the world when it came to help with the defense of race rights. The biggest example in South Africa where both prime minister Mulroney and the US president imposed sanctions against the white government and against apartheid.
They only forgot one thing, they were as bad or worse than South Africa. Segregation only stopped on paper. In Canada we still had residential schools trying to make citizens out of barbarian Indians. In the US only people that did not live in the country could believe that there was no racism.
It is very hypocritical. This is not peculiar of the US. In Africa all the countries involved in the liberation armies in the 1960s and 1970s, openly criticized Britain, Portugal and South Africa governments for their racist policies but as soon as independence for most countries was finally accomplished, those same countries turned out to be even worse. Africa at the time was basically neo-colonized by Russia and China with the help of countries in Europe and elsewhere including Poland, East Germany, Cuba and others that helped with armament like Sweden.
As soon as the big migration started more recently, none of these countries wants them and some are even building walls to stop them from coming in. Why?
Well I will answer like Dr. Darity – reality reveals what the world has long been.
Easy to criticize others, hard to be truthful to what is right. This is not a new problem anyway, we just like to show off to the rest of world.
The US and Russia and now China are the biggest colonizers on the planet but they have been involved in all the liberation wars as far as I can remember.
I missed the final thought
The Colonizers are good at recognizing problems in other places in the world so they can get some weapons contracts.
They certainly do not see the same problems at home. Easy to deal with racism abroad not so much your own.
Carlos, your comment reminded me of the seven years we spent in the US. People believed themselves not to be racist while at the same time freaking out if one of their kids dated someone who was Black or Brown or native American.
Exactly and Europe is the same deal. We all are, except it is always easy to point fingers. In Europe while decolonization was happening in the early sixties, people would easily blame the Europeans that lived in Africa of being so racist.
Then after independence and until now, when the natives from the colonies came to live in Europe to escape the chaos decolonization created, well that was a different story. I am sure you know what I mean and I think that I do not need examples. Just take a look at France, Germany, Britain and others and they are a mess. Of course it is not an easy problem but I am just talking about it because blaming others to be racist is easy.
Trump’s inauguration is just around the corner and we continue our subservient attitude towards them. I think this article reflects quite a bit of my own personal view on it and so I thought this could get some discussion going as well.
The US has changed and it will be a different country from now on. We became very dependent on them and it is an easy relationship but it is time we grow up and start having a more independent relationship with the world if we really want to be respected, instead of this lets go to the US and beg that we do not get the tariffs.
It will be a difficult change but it is through difficult times that we learn how to mature. Life is not just easy money and good times.
https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/why-seek-closer-economic-ties-with-a-us-dictatorship
I think Trump is going to be more in the lines of Viktor Orban in what they now call illiberal democracy. I call it dictatorship but Conservatives are trying to make it more palatable and that is why Harper is the big Kahuna in the International Democracy Union that backs people like Viktor Orban.
To me they are just making it normal to accept right wing dictatorships. Harper has been on this journey since his early days in Alberta. He signed the Alberta Firewall letter to change this province more in the type of dictatorship he calls democracy. He has his own private consulting business and I am sure he has plenty of clients.
Carlos, I talked with someone today who pointed out how undemocratic Danielle Smith is and how, much to our dismay, her supporters aren’t bothered by this. I don’t know all the reasons why this is the case, but I do believe that the lack of unbiased thoughtful media is part of the problem. Recently I received an email from the Calgary Herald. It was a blurb by Rick Bell in which he boasted that he didn’t kowtow to any party. He was an independent thinker, willing to take his lumps for his opinions. And I wondered what planet that poor man was living on, because it certainly wasn’t Earth. My point is this: if the reporters (who are paid to stay on top of politics) are this lost, then heaven help the little guy who’s simply trying to get by.
You are so right Susan and I could not say it better.
Our reaction is always the same. Now we have team Canada that is going to the US and act like subservient slaves to not get the tariffs. We always take the easier route. Justin Trudeau is going to bow to Trump as he did with India dressed like a clown. The results with India are pretty visible and they have been using Canada as their garbage bag.
Trump loves the adoration and I am sure that again we will give him what he wants just so we have it easy.
I think Mexico will be tougher than us although they are in a much harder position, they are poorer.
Trump has already made clear, just like the last time that he cares almost nothing about us. They never did, they just need us to be prosperous as well.
Maybe one day we will learn to be self confident and stand up for what we believe and protect our beautiful country from foreign crap. That Australian billionaire is again showing us who is the boss as far as taking our coal in our parks area. It is hard to believe we just sell ourselves so easy.
I am sorry but we are living in times where we need to say what is opinion clearly.
Rick Bell is an idiot that somehow got the right wing blessing. Even when it is right before your eyes he and Gunter just have to capitulate to their landlords. It is disgraceful.
How can anyone justify what Danielle Smith is doing as something that makes any sense?
The word different got cut off !!!
Carlos: many good points here. We have become much to reliant on the US for everything and are now facing a new harsh reality that the US is not necessarily our friend. Consequently becoming more self reliant and in greater control of our own destiny makes perfect sense. It will be instructive to see how Mexico’s new president, Claudia Scheinbaum, maneuvers around Trump. Thank you for the link.
As you can see their reaction is completely
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/mexican-president-hits-back-at-trump-s-tariff-threats/ss-AA1uUX18?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=3d6a78c5937647079c14bcf488fe2f1b&ei=14#image=3
Sorry went to the wrong place
I meant on this sentence – the word different is not there
This is what I mean – I am glad I see some people that think like I do. This is disgusting to me and taking sides with Trump to me does not have a word to express it other than a bad dirty one
https://www.nationalobserver.com/2024/11/27/opinion/canada-conservatives-surrender-tariffs-trump
So now Danielle Smith has gone on FOX News, comparing Alberta to Venezuela, but saying Alberta is a better trading partner. She confirms that drill, baby, drill is her motto, too, and she wants Keystone XL built.
In my previous post, I reminded readers that Hugo Chavez took over the oil companies in Venezuela in 2007. If oil companies are not concerned about UCP government control over their emissions data, or UCP control over who comes and goes at their properties, perhaps that should be now. Is Danielle Smith planning to seize control entirely? Could she? At the very least, could she force them to sell oil into low prices?
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna18415188
It’s time for Albertans to consider “Dutch disease” and the dangers of becoming a petrostate.
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/venezuela-crisis
Albertarian: it’s like we live in an upside down world. The UCP’s rules for wind and solar energy projects go so far as to prevent private land owners from entering into a contract with a private company to allow that company to construct a renewable project on private land. Remember when the NDP introduced legislation requiring some level of worker’s comp coverage (in certain instances) on farms? The farmers went nuts, but they seem to be just fine when the UCP interfere with their private property rights. Are they so blinded by the UCP label that they don’t understand what is happening?
Yes the Harsh Reality
https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2024/12/09/Question-Danielle-Smith-Struggles-Answer/
The Turks hacked Danielle Smith and despite the resources she has available she has no clue where 49 million dollars of our money are. Someone in Turkey is building a villa at our expenses and the stupidity of this UCP government.
She hates the Federal government and as far as she is concerned they are useless except when it is to resolve her screw ups.
What a sad state of affairs – it is an embarrassment day in and day out.
“We are working with Health Canada to identify a way to fulfil that contract,” said Smith. “They [Atabay] are a generic drug company, so there’s a way that we would be able to identify products that health services need.”
Would she reveal what products?
“I can’t,” replied Smith. “I can’t pre-empt the Health Canada process.”
Carlos, this one simply blows me away. In all my years of working as corporate counsel I have never seen a contract where the company would pay out millions of dollars IN ADVANCE of receiving the product, or pay out millions in one lump sum, or sign a contract where it has no recourse in the even the product provided was not fit for purpose. And yet here we are. Also I find it hard to believe that no one knows who has the missing $49 million. Look at the cheque or the bank transfer or whatever the heck mechanism the government used to moved the money out of the government’s bank account into the recipient’s bank account. Surely, it wasn’t transferred to a numbered account in a Panamanian bank!!
This situation screams out for a public inquiry.
Susan this smells to me like a transfer of 49 million dollars to an offshore account.
Like you explain, where is the cheque or the bank transfer out of the government bank account?
I do not think is Panama but I am sure someone has a fat account somewhere in the world.
This is the reason no one knows anything. I think they are letting it go to see if we forget about it, or that the RCMP takes over and takes 20 years to solve.
I am starting to understand how this new democratic illiberalism works.